In other words, eat fast and tip big?

I don't see why you don't just tell the hostess not to seat anymore people in that situation. 'Course the sum total of my food service knowledge comes from this blog and WaiterRant, so...

Because Larry - the food service business is sick and twisted.

We don't want to turn away business.

But we don't want to serve you, either.

What we want is for people to be smart enough to know that.

We're all crazy for a reason. ;-)

Well, TFW just answered my question. Cause I was thinking to just change the numbers outside on the door. But it all makes sense now and I feel better.

Biggles

Hear, hear.

While waitressing I grew to hate last-minute customers so violently that I now won't enter any restaurant, not even a fast-food one, unless I have at least an hour before they close. It's driven several dining companions nuts: "Why can't we eat there? It's only 9:30!" "Yes, but THEY CLOSE AT 10." I'm immovable on the issue.

No way do I want to be the asshole customer. And no way do I want to tempt a less scrupulous chef than yourself into taking revenge on my entree.

YES!!! I waitressed for a while in college, and it used to drive our staff nuts when that happened. And it happened a lot!

Understood. Sort of. :) I can certainly understand not enjoying finding out at the end of one's workday that you have to work for (an) extra hour(s) -- indeed it's happened to me. But really, you can't be too mad at someone who comes in during posted business hours.

One of my favorite college bars kept their clocks 15 minutes ahead at all times and wouldn't budge no matter how many times you showed them your watch. It was accepted and we moved on. Why can't you post your closing hours as "some certain time, depending on business". If it's empty, you close. People will realize your place is just so awesome that it's a bit elusive.

I'm sure there's something obvious that I'm not getting about this process.

Awwwww... Man. All we wanted was a few steaks. :/

See, I have a problem with this. I used to work food service, we closed at 10, and I hated it when people came in at 10 on the dot and expect food. However, that was fast food, we dealt with it.

I hate this whole thing with sit-down places. I went to an indian place and everyone breathed down our necks the whole time to hurry up and order, and then hurry up and finish. We were going out to celebrate, and it left a really bad feeling to the whole deal-- I wish that they would have told us that they couldn't seat us because they were closing shortly. Why not make it a restaurant rule that no one gets seated a half hour before closing, or whatever is a reasonable time? If management is too greedy to not have a policy like this, it seems as though the problem should lie with management, not be the customer's problem.

I can understand if the customer is just screwing around after they've finished, and everyone is waiting to close; kick them to the curb. But to seat someone when you know that you are going to close shortly is stupid, and it's doubly stupid to expect the customer to second-guess the restaurant as to their closing expectations.

Sorry... this is a (rare!) instance where the customer is right.

PS: You hit a nerve. :)

Just kidding about the steaks. It wasn't me. But I have a perspective from on the other side of the swinging doors.

One year, my wife and I went out for dinner for New Year's Eve with another two couples. This was a fairly upscale steak joint, and was rumored to have really good food. We arrived at 5:00pm because we all had young childen. We were waiting in the foyer for our table when they decided to have a pep rally for the staff.

The boss told them: "Get them in, get them out, don't offer coffee or dessert!".

We were flabbergasted, and we probably should have turned around and walked out, but we rarely go out for a nice dinner, and we couldn't get in to another place on such short notice.

True to the pep talk, they rushed us through dinner, and when some of us ordered dessert, they grudgingly served it, then the waitress tried to take away one of our desserts before the person had half finished it.

That was the last time we ever went there. Two years later, the place was out of business. (I don't think it was *us* who caused it to fold ;))

Closing time is, by definition, the time that no one is welcome to enter. All restaurant workers hate it. All retail stores hate it when you run it at the last minute. Its not like the Food Whore is the only one out there - its the business in general. And its just a part of how it works. You come in late, we (me, being a former hostess and cashier who was the last one out of the building, along side the manager) get annoyed but thats just how it works. It would be silly for every restaurant to put a "we prefer you don't come in within 30 minutes of closing time" sign on the door.
Anyway - I agree and have felt your pain on many occassions.

God love ya. I can so relate. And I am so posting this at my food forums. (Yes, I know "fora" is correct but so very nerdy.)

If you ever get to a restaurant close to closing time: 1) Order quickly and let them know that it's okay for it to come all at once (or better yet, just have one-course and scram). 2) Offer to settle the check right away so the waiter and host can 'cash out'. 3) Don't order a 3 course repast, and tell them you're skipping dessert...the pastry crew is always the last to leave, especially if the customers are picking at their main courses with surgical precision while the busboys are putting chairs on table all around them.

try this trick - which i've seen in some restaurants... they display closing time, but they also have last order time, usually a a good half and hour (if not a whole hour) from closing time... :)

I too was going to suggest the last order time display. I know I've seen it at some restaurants too.
As a former retail worker I too can sympathize about last minute customers who makes your skin boil with their lack of time-reading skills. Especially if they lied about what they wanted (something short and sweet) and ended up wandering forever with the intention of a big purchase with lots of *^&#! paperwork. And smile about it. At least I didn't have to make food for them too.

Oh, plus I remember being told outright by French waitstaff that it was too late to order with a type of cold snobbiness that only French waiters seem to have perfected.

Oh dear.. Sorry for taking up space. I meant to add to that last by saying that if the French can do it, why not? ;-)

I don't really get why some of you are confused. I work retail. Last night, this heinous woman came in and started trying on at 9:20. We close at 9:30. Fast forward to 10:10, and this stupid lady finally walks out the door.

The point that the food whore is making, is that 10 minutes before close does not give you enough time to eat a meal. It does not give you enough time to try on clothes. You do not have time to do whatever it is that you want, without seriously making 4-10 people go out of their way for you. Shop during normal hours. Eat during normal hours. And if you still don't understand this concept, then go get a restaurant or retail job.

Enjoy!

I totally understand, but it could always be worse. I worked at an Indian restaurant once and they hosted a wedding reception that dragged on well past 1 am.

The best motivator I know is to cut the background music at closing time, start turning off some of the lights, and setting the dining room up for the next service (if applicable). Unless they are completely self-absorbed they should figure it out.

Here's what I don't get: if you want to start shutting the place down at 10, why don't you just close at 9? That way the customers who come in at 8:55 can be out by around 10, and you can close down when you want to?

If you're open for business, you're open for business. Why be open if you aren't open, if you see what I mean?

Boy the number of people here who have no clue about restaurants and food service is staggering.

Why not close at nine, and be out by ten?

Why can't the customers have sense enough to know that they cannot come in at ten minutes until closing and expect a full meal? Huh? What is so frigging hard about that?

I know why--they are too selfish to think of anyone but themselves. Period. It is all me, me, me.

That is pure BS. The customer is always right is a bad way to do business.

I like the idea of a "final seating" or "final order" time.

But even if it was posted, people would still come in one minute before the final order and whine, "But we just want an appetizer," and then order a full three or four courses and linger over coffee. I have had it happen to me so many times it simply isn't funny.

Given a choice between trying to train the entire world to understand that "we close at 10" actually means "we really closed at 9 and if you take our sign seriously you're an idiot", OR simply changing your sign, I know which makes more sense...

I mean, seriously -- why do restaurants feel the need to post open hours that don't really mean they're open?

I agree it is up to the customer to figure if they can complete their transaction in the space of time before the establishment closes. It shouldn't be the establishment's policy to have to close 1 hour before the desired closing time.

In the case of a restaurant, if someone just wants a dessert and they have 10 minutes until closing, they should be welcome to come and scarf one down, but be kind enough to leave when the restaurant is scheduled to close.

It is called taking responsibility for one's actions. Very few people get it. Hence we have an abundance of amusing blog fodder.

This does not only occur in the food or retail service industry. It occurs across the board. I am a physician in a group & I had a patient look me in the eye & try to explain why s/he showed up 2 minutes before the posted closing time of an after-hours clinic & expected medical care. There was not enough time to sign in, never mind get put in a room, disrobe & have vitals taken. And what kind of medical care would s/he expect in 2 minutes??? But, s/he'd happily sue if they'd missed something.

I've seen plenty of department stores with nice men in nice jackets, unlocking the door & letting folks out & not letting folks in - cuz the store was closing in 15 minutes. It's not exactly unheard of.

Well, that shows how dumb I am. I thought the closing sign was the latest seating time, hey we start to turn off the ovens and stop cooking after that. I thought you could stay and enjoy your food until you were done. But what do I know, I live in Europe and you don't have to turn over your table at all once you're seated. (Now, getting the waiter's attention to get another drink, THAT's a gripe for me.)

I personally feel and have felt for a long time that everyone should have to work and least once in retail and at a restaurant. I think that if we all did the world would be a much nicer place. Although, it maybe a nicer place just because we wouldn't have to get mad when other people don't know the rules.

Oh, this was so good. Pre-university, I made the rounds in the restaurant I worked in-- started as dishwasher, then busperson, then cook, then waitress, finally back to cook.

Which means I could effectively be a stand-in swear-er for any of them. Call me if you need me :)

Guys, closing time at 10pm means just that. Anyone coming in before that time has the expectation of the same level of service as if they came in at 7pm. If you don't like it, find an office job. From my experience, there was always one waiter who liked getting late tables, they tended to tip very well when taken care of. If you need help understanding it, it is part of paying the bills so you have a place to work at. And as the table gets through their meal, kitchen staff can be let go, keeping the garde mange or pastry to do desserts. It does not mean you can not start cleaning up and getting ready to close. Think about it, if your calling the late customer as selfish, aren't you the one being selfish. After all, they have interfered with your after work schedule, with no thought that you will walk out with a little more money from your shift. And tell the truth, you do go into places and stay late, we all do. So get over yourselfs and customer service is about the customer, not the tempermental staff. And by the way, I have been in the business since the 70's mostly in the back of the house.

Why is this business given less consideration than others? Most people when walking into an office at 10 till 5 will at least have the courtesy to apologize for catching you on you way out the door but it never crosses their minds in a restaurant. We like to try to get home in a resonable amount of time also.

I've had these people. The ones who come in 5 minutes before last call and assure us they can finish an entire bottle of wine between the two of them before we have to pull their drinks at 1am. Guess what? They can't. If they weren't there late, they'd be the ones who pick the smallest two-top in the place and order three things and look at you like you've done something wrong when you can't really find a place to put the three things they've ordered in amongst the bottle they're drinking, two wine glasses, and two water glasses. Granted, it's better than those two people walking in earlier, looking around, deciding they don't want to sit at the bar because the six-top is obviously a much better place for two people to sit. (Usually followed by a party of five or more within the next 10 minutes.) Getting back to the entire bottle at last call people: I don't really care if you've paid $70 for the bottle. We pull drinks at 1am, maybe as late as 1:10 if it's busy, and no, you probably can't make up for the lost business if we get our license pulled, so no, I won't wait "just a little longer, chief." And by the way, our closing time is 30 minutes after last call, leaving a half hour where you're welcome to come in and we'll sell you a pack of cigarettes or a coke, but not much else.

I can't say I'm with you here, FW. I've walked into plenty of places late and been told that the kitchen is closing in five minutes or is already closed.

I'm sure some potential diners will take offense, but they will be few. Be nice, but be firm and they'll come back another day. If you seat someone late, you've entered into an implied contract to serve them as you would any other customer.

You can't expect customers to psychically infer that they can order a full meal at 9:15, but at 9:30 they better cut out the appetizer, and if it's 9:45 they need to order a cold sandwich and get the hell out.

If you want different hours, post different hours or put up a sign that indicates when the kitchen closes. "Open Noon-10pm, kitchen closes at 9:00pm". Lots of restaurants do, and they survive just fine.

I totally agree with Dora. If everyone had to work in a restaurant, they'd know what a P.I.T.A. it is to give them a booth after they've already been assigned a table. If everyone had to work retail - even for a week - they'd be a lot nicer to the salespeople.

I work in guest services now and not a day goes by when I'm not blamed for ruining someone's day/birthday/vacation/memories for something stupid. People have no perspective!

A couple of places I like accept late diners but you sit at the bar. The staff can clear our and they can clean the restaurant. I have eaten many good dinners like this - nothing elaborate, just good food.

I promise that not 1 in 100 folks would think you rude for reminding them of closing time and "if you can finish in that time we'll be glad to serve you". That's the best of both worlds. Fantastic site.

I'm with you on this one. I used to work retail and we started calling out we were about to close about and hour before we did. If there was still a lot of people in the store when it was really close to closing, they managers had us make sure they got what they wanted and got out. But some people didn't get it. This one lady in particular kept stopping to look at things and would not take the hint.
We called out when our area was not clear, which served two purposes. 1. To keep a register open for them and, 2. To serve as one huge hint to them that they were staying longer than they were welcome.
Not that that helps in your situation, but I definately sympathize.

Keep in mind the people in the kitchen have been on their for feet for 8-12 hours by the time you drag your ass in and there's little else to do while waiting for a single late table to order besides feeling bitter about them keeping you from sitting down with your feet up and a cold beer (or lemon drop) in your hand. Besides TFW didn't say that you couldn't come in 10 mins. before closing, just consider the consequences if that's your choice...